Fireside Chat with National cricket team coach Patrick Rajkumar and Skillenza CEO Subendhu Panigrahi

This is an auto-transcribed version of the interview. You can watch all the protalks series here

Gaurav Tripathi 0:00
Cool, I think we can get started, people will keep coming in anyways. So hello all warm welcome to another session of products and God the party, CEO and co founded superpro. Ai, and your host for today’s prokop. I’ve got two amazing super pros. Let me today the phenomenal coach, Patrick Rajkumar and the entrepreneur chabane. Do pedigree. So, today being teachers day, again, it didn’t happen by design, really. We didn’t, we didn’t plan it. But yes, how it has happened is, at one end, we have, we have a we have a guru teacher, a coach, like Patrick, and the other. And we have a professional and entrepreneur, who his vision is to get millions of students to one want to aspire to get a job. So he’s in business, he’s helping those millions of students to really get to that level by improving their skills and learning more and challenging themselves. So this is I see, not by design, but how it is how it has happened, we have got these two amazing people now today with us. So the format of today’s programme is going to be same as we have, really, so we need to start with a with an introduction of the super pros. They will introduce themselves. I’m lazy. And and then we move to some interesting questions. We get to know about their journey. And now what, what led them to do what they’re doing. And then towards the end, we’ll have some time for questions from all of you from the audience. And for, for putting in your questions. Just in case you have not noticed the ad, there is a chat option. So you all you need to do is click on chat, and whatever you want to ask just key in the question there. We have got our team members of super pro as well. They’re logged in. So don’t worry, we won’t lose out on your questions. We won’t ignore you. So you put in the questions there. And I’ll get reminders from my team to answer those. Yeah. So great. Let’s get started. I think a lot of people have joined already. So I start with you, Patrick, please. Yeah,

Patrick Rajkumar 3:13
yeah, I know, I basically I’ve been in this teaching field for more than 25 years, 24 years. But more than my teaching, quality, I mean, teaching professional non for my teaching professions in the outside world. I’ve known reasonably for my coaching abilities for coaching the Indian blind team, to many World Cup victories, especially this journey started with 2012 for the first ever to win a World Cup which was organised in India. And I was roped in to do this coaching for Indian black team. And since then, there’s been no turning back. And we haven’t more than four World Cups now the Asia Cup they have to Pakistan, England and South Africa and things like that. And it’s been amazing experience, okay, it’s been an amazing experience. And what matters is that you know, how we work with them and motivate them and talk to them and inspire them to win ball cups. Because that’s not that changed completely. Their perspective and the world itself, the world itself got changed. And so therefore, so I’ve also been offered that I’ve been also involved in Ted TEDx speaking and other motivational events, speaking and other motivational. Speaking in other companies and other training programmes, wherein I have been invited as a motivational speaker. And it has been a wonderful journey, sharing my experience with them and how they have found it very meaningful and interesting. So basically, yes, I’m a professor, and now a coach. Amazing, amazing. Yeah, sure. We do your turn.

Subhendu Panigrahi 4:57
Are you my ex It is in front of Patrick looks face model, trying to do something interesting in the learning and scaling and HR space. So I’m one of the founders of a company called skill Enza. Before I started the company, I was working for a startup, that was my first job just out of college. And while working with them, we were trying to build a team in India, it was a basically us startup, they sort of LA, we tend to build a team in India, it was such a pain in ass to hire good engineers, right? And that made me realise if I’m facing the problem, other enough people who are facing the same problem, and is it a business opportunity. And as we started the company in 2014, late 2014, almost five and a half years ago. And early progress as a company, we realise that more than hiring, the problem is lies where the lot of people in the country who are really good, but they don’t, they don’t have that exposure, right? They don’t have the right mentorship, they don’t have the right connects, right. I guess a lot of you are also from one of the IITs, I belong to one of the IITs, my co founders are from also KGP. The only thing that made us to stick to those dirty campuses and bad mess food was the network, right? I mean, we stayed there because we loved our peers, we loved our seniors, we loved our junior, and that’s the thing. I mean, the network is not there in every college. So the idea was that how do I build a company which helps people to learn from each other, and the moment they they are there, then I have the opportunity also for them, right? Because that’s what people will tell you that, hey, if you are from it, you get the job. Because there is somebody who’s trying to get all the opportunities, I said, it does not matter even if you don’t go to it, who gets it, we will bring you those opportunities, right. So we don’t care about your pedigree, we don’t care about your background, we just care about your skill set. So that’s where the name skill ends up. So that was the thesis of the company. And we have done our fair share of work in the last five years.

Gaurav Tripathi 7:04
Okay, I completely agree with you on that part. As although I won’t, I won’t really say that. IoT is overrated or anything, but yes, it’s true that all nerds, it’s more than network that is there. Thank you. Okay. So one of the things that I’ve been looking at so this interesting, next, Episode, one end, you have, you have people, so let’s say students or professionals here who want to want to learn at the other end, of course, you need the right mentors, for them to grow, you need the right, the right coach or the right teacher. So from how do you look at it? Patrick take based on what you have been in education space, and this is one for very long, what has been your journey, you know, what, how you evolved as a, as a professional or as a coach and this journey yet,

Patrick Rajkumar 8:33
first of all, it’s an attitude, you know, whether it’s a coaching or teaching anything, what matters is the attitude of two people. One is the thought arrows the learning. So if both of them have a right attitude, you know, and then you start from there already, okay, even if you take my coaching with the client will see that, you know, the my attitude was the right place was that I thought that they were players, I never treated them with sympathy, I never thought they were disabled people. And therefore, if in order to train anybody to greater glory, what we need to have is the right attitude. So unless you have an attitude that you know, I mean, if you don’t have a right attitude, what happens then you have such a pity that you start looking at their disabilities, you start looking at their backgrounds, as they said, you know, pedigrees and you know, where they come from and things like that. So, that is something that one has to set right. So if your attitude is towards such a set to a particular goal, even in teaching, I realised that if you if you have a prejudice to the students, I always tell my students was well every class of mine is like a first class. Last class, somebody might have done something naughty, or they were not there without you know, being arrogant to be they may not have respected me, but I never go back to the same magic with the class. You know, with that kind of prejudice. Every class of mine I always considered a new one. So everybody’s new. The day is new, and people arguing so therefore you don’t have prejudice. Same thing happens. One of the biggest difference that made to me is my attitude towards the players. I never took them as disabled people, okay? And that’s where I was able to set high standards for them. And I pulled them to the high standards of training to the guy. And I said, See, unless you, you know, set your attitudes Don’t expect me to be kind to you Don’t expect me to be very, you know, very easy going with you Don’t expect me to excuse you, or whatever you do think either Oh, you can’t see or you’re disabled, or it, you know, already have excuses. So I feel that, you know, whenever there is two people, you know, one is learning and was teaching us more importantly, is the kind of attitude that we have. Because if you are pessimistic, if you are, you know, limited by your prejudices, your past, by the front, let’s say you only say that where you come from doesn’t matter at all, where we want to go is very, very important. Okay. So you set your goals on where you want to go. And then if you set your attitude, not a positivity, you can achieve and you can see that with a blind place.

Gaurav Tripathi 11:01
That’s very, very aptly put. Really here. That’s, that is what matters, I think, well, what’s your take? When do so on that part, what you have what you’re seeing on the other side? Here, the students who are who have been interacting with bringing on your platform, what do you see?

Subhendu Panigrahi 11:22
I totally agree with Patrick, I think when we when we are also kind of doing our these activities, hackathon challenges, a lot of students do come from very humble backgrounds, right? And the way to deal with them is exactly saying that I don’t care about where you come from, I’ll treat everybody as equal, right? When it comes to Patrick Patrick does not care about their, their blind, right? They don’t he’s not showing sympathy. So I think that is something that we have also realised that we have to treat people in that direction. And the way I see these people coming from various backgrounds, right? They have a lot of hunger. Right? I think that is something I have seen. very amazing, right? And, and sadly, that’s the bias in our in our hiring framework, right? hiring policies that a lot of companies still prefer students or graduates from these pedigrees, right? these brands, but, and that’s what kind of gives us more passion, saying that, hey, these are people who are coming from very simple backgrounds, but they’re really amazing. How, what can we do for them? How can we get them connected to great companies, right. And there are cases where people have actually doubled or tripled their salaries by doing these hackathons and participating on a platform, right? So I think treating them as equal is the first step perhaps what I’ve learned in the last five years that we don’t need to tell them that we are you are from this college or that college does not matter. It’s an open platform. Exactly like when you go to the match pitch, when you are actually participating. It hardly matters where you come from, right. And you have to just perform on that day. Right? Exactly what matters. Nothing else right.

Gaurav Tripathi 13:19
diving deeper on that aspect. personal reading this is this is something which I actually asked, got asked recently, when I when I shared this information about that you are going to be a super pro and we’ll have a real hour talk very soon with you. And I got questions. Which I to an extent I felt were were really, I don’t know, naive, or maybe not stupid, but now it really is like, Oh, do we have blind cricket as well? How does it How does it happen? And to me again, I realised that we initially it was a surprise, like, What are you talking about? I know, but then I realised probably because I have been following. Yeah. So I knew that yes, it happens. And you know, there’s like, again, that forget about being like there’s blind cricket. The fact is, yes, India has been a champion at it. So I realised that probably because I knew it wasn’t surprised, but there there will be a lot of people who will still have the okay first How is it? How does it happen? Really? Yeah. And when and when you when you get people there? And then how, how do you see here? So let’s say cricket. You’re there and then with the blind cricket team, where do you see? See? Yeah,

Patrick Rajkumar 14:52
I can understand the Kinect and I can understand the questions because you know the variable they know are learning from They are willing to learn only from certain predetermined people. You know, for us this whole concept of learning itself is if it only comes from a particular place particular you know what he called routine route we find that for education they don’t listen to the I know we don’t learn from unconventional things for example when it is to win the World Cup and first of all COVID even won and you know, we are going to Delhi and other places to show people is to travel in plain this see this cup and the last council I have to look okay for me to retake this cup. Okay, so they took the conference on attend, they realise that like, Oh, we are blind Archer ticketing, it’s a little simpler sympathy, you know, their sympathy. And next time when we won the World Cup, they said, Oh, cha, you play cricket Acharya, because when they see that the ends are replaced from a stick to a bat, they cannot accept this, okay, this is supposed to be walking with the stick, and not you know, walking with the bat, and the ball, as you know, and then slowly win every time you won the World Cup, and they got places and things like that, not only then people are trying to play cricket, actually won the World Cup, it took years for people to understand that blind people can also play from sympathy to admiration, you know, this whole process of sympathy, admiration was a long journey. Okay. And people could not accept that, you know, they could play cricket, they could be normal. And, you know, we need to appreciate them and do instead of all that, so many other questions were arising, you know, like, so that was very, very bad. Okay, I thought See, life lessons can be taught by anybody. And to be very honest, you know, I’ve, I’ve been a greater greatest admin admirer of these players, you know, with all the defects than disabilities, they have reached peaks. And they don’t, they are from very bad family backgrounds, which are particularly placed, okay, we have come from, can’t even manage three meals a day, some of them, they don’t work, but they are here to make India proud. And they made the country proud. But it looks like they’re all second class citizens, you know, the cup that we win, we’re not nice at all. And it took years for a, you know, the government and the people to react and accept us and say, okay, cheers you’re on there, we’re following up are all in the rain is no, it took years for us 123 World Cups and travelling around the world, only that that’s the sad part of it, okay, but what I feel is that the true learnings can come from any site from anybody, it could be disabled people, it could be ordinary people, it could be a farmer. So therefore, if you want to learn life lessons, you have to keep yourself open, don’t be prejudiced, thinking that you can come only from it, the IMS and the, you know, the top most big big companies, you know.

Gaurav Tripathi 17:45
And I’m sure some of it at least is happening with students at this angle. I have seen this a lot again, in my, in my in my last startup when I had to build a team. No, I of course, had this idea as well, you know, I had this kind of propel or whatever. But then something amazing, which happened was the first first two guys that I hired were from a nondescript college, really. I mean, I had not heard the name, nobody had heard the name of the college, they could barely speak Hindi properly, forget about English. But then they had an amazing aptitude. And later on, you know, the team got the when you get got more more people, everybody used to ask, oh, which college are you from? And that’s when I realised that this is this is a prejudice, which is deep down somewhere, it’s there what what I’ve had what have you seen happening with the chooser?

Subhendu Panigrahi 18:46
I think I right. Prejudice is there. And that was one of the reasons we thought as a how do we create a platform which is more democratic right, where people are able to showcase their skills right. In fact, Obama also says if you can do the job, we should get the job. So what then then then what happens is, let’s say you want to hire a cook, right a chef or a cook basically, who can come and cook at your restaurant or at you at home? How do you How will you understand that the cook can do good job right? You say hey do a trial. At this we realise that trials are our best let let these engineers away whatever background they come from that they come from some trials, they work on some problem statements, let the problem statement be practical assignments be practical, which the company needs, right. Why do you ask a theoretical question when you don’t want to use it? And then you are then you are saying that I asked you a theoretical question which only an IT graduate can answer because that guy and then you are the yardstick is wrong, right? You say you I want to create an Android app, make an app for me and if you can do it, I’ll just give you a job simple. By the code should speak the work samples should speak. That is what pushed us direction and amazing results right when we started in 2015. We saw people from these large services companies because a lot of these non it, humble college students go to these mass recruiters. And when they get jobs, these guys will come in when the hackathons right and they will get double or triple salary jump, because typically, the fresh graduate salaries in these valleys are three to three and a half lakhs, right. And my client base was mostly startups, right? That’s where we started the company. And these startups would say, we have some decent money to pay if not a lot, but we can pay, right? And when you see the difference, that will be three times because the startup is happy to pay eight lakh rupee salary because it will pay an IT graduate, right average salary to an ID graduate or nit graduate policing this guy is same calibre, I pay him the same money and that guy is happy because he’s saying I would not imagine getting that jump, right? I think that bias is what we have removed. And now companies have realised that this is how they should be hiring, right? Whether they’re using us for using one of our competitors does not matter. What we have done is the way what these online e commerce companies did, right? pushed everybody to say, hey, online is the way to buy premium pay phone pay does not matter what you use, but now the user behaviour has changed, right? That is what we have done. So we have played a part that companies want to go through these model now. Right? So every company is doing it currently. Just

Patrick Rajkumar 21:28
Just to add up to that so many people ask me also, what is a political science professor doing in coaching? Yes, I had that question. asked us for the question. I mean, doesn’t have to be a professional, you know, from NIH, or, you know, from some kind of big Academy, you know, then all those theories of coaching and you know, then only you have to coach you have food, you have the Will you have the passion anybody can do and I’ve shown it I mean, well won World Cups or World Cups. I mean, you don’t need to anymore to prove that, you know, somebody else who’s not a coach cannot do this job.

Gaurav Tripathi 22:13
So, talking about excellence, since, um, I think I you’re one of the few people who I know understands excellence because yes, you made a team which was lagging somewhere and you turned it around and made them win World Cup off the World Cup. Yeah. What what happened exactly here? Did you simply come and just change the people altogether? Or selected people somehow or you gave them some secret diet? What happened? Exactly your or what’s it like to come from? love to know

Patrick Rajkumar 23:05
I think everybody understands is no there’s a it’s like iceberg is like I swear success is only the tip, you know, what we see is, is that but below that, you know, a lot of hard work goes on. And I always believe in preparation and hard work. Nothing. I mean, you cannot you cannot succeed without hardware. You cannot just because you’re blind in the ground number is not going to be kind and say no, this was out but you know, we work if you play play play, that’s not going to happen. He’s a very competitive cricket. So World Cup 10 p 10. Countries playing, okay, and you’ve got to be at the top of your, you know, performances. And it’s hard work, you know, and preparations we do a lot of preparations in our minimum of one month, of course, we can’t afford for a greater things now that we have what 30 days to 14 days, hardcore morning till from 530 till evening 530 Okay, with breaks of lunch breakfast and other things, we have a routine work and you know, we work very hard regimen to type kind of training, then evenings, I have to sit with them and communicate with them talk to them off the pill, because this route to success is the communications are we build confidence in them, okay, it’s a two way I should build confidence in them, and they should have confidence in everything that I’m doing because they can’t see me they can’t see to understand what our results are coming. So they got to believe in you. Okay, so that they trust you for which you have to build confidence so as to not only on the field, you know, tell them coach them and you know, help them show what things are both in terms of physical training, you know, keeping them fit, and also in terms of techniques of batting, boring fielding and things like that. And then in the evening, we sit together and talk to them, what is the meaning of all this training that we have done and work on the minds because when they play in the cricket ground, the entire ground is the mind. Okay, so the picture is the ground in the mind because they can’t visibly see Okay, so we have to set that whole training process that happens in the ground to the mind. Okay, so it’s a, it’s a lovely process that happens from physical to mind, and then getting that confidence and a lot of preparations. Okay, so it has it didn’t happen. It’s not that just, you know, simply happened. We I had my own, you know, tough times convincing them giving them confidence. And what did the trick was the communication skills, so I was able to speak to them in many languages, okay. So most of the time, something in languages I can speak and then India was good enough to speak the North Indians and team teamwork. Okay, so as the secret of every success in any business is a teamwork, okay, we got to have a tremendous teamwork, and especially in primary care what happens, they always move in pairs, okay, they don’t go, they always go in patient buddies. So the buddy system we have because the blind one person who cannot see is led by a person can see little bit. So therefore everything happens in buddy system, whether they eat, whether they say the rooms, whether they move around, whether they practice, whatever they do, the buddy system, so they believe their buddies, okay, so we want to build a strong body systems, which you can call it in terms of teamwork, okay. And this body system enables them to make a good team, because even if one of them don’t cooperate with the other one, it becomes very, very difficult, because some of the players that depend on the runners, some of the dependent to different different ways of dependencies is there in the plane ticket. But teamwork and his buddy system, and preparation, communication, and building confidence is all that did clicks. And this has worked wonders for us in winning most of the World Cups.

Gaurav Tripathi 26:46
So now people see of course, that you the success here we have been a abroad that’s up to the team has worked and now success after success, in fact, yeah. But how was it just before that, you know, when when you’re going through the real lows were in the success probably didn’t even exist in the team’s mind itself. You know, they probably they were disillusion that they will will they ever succeed? How was it like, how? How did you? So you mentioned about communication, but But what was it like what were you communicating reading? Or how we’re communicating? Yeah, I mean, I

Patrick Rajkumar 27:28
do I did feel emptiness because I was leading something I was not sure whether this success would you know, change their lifestyle, whether it winning the World Cup would, you know, bring about a lot of luck for the players or luck for us, will their future change and things like that. So my communication was in terms of building they’re not only they need cricket, but building the future. So I tell them, how this game is an escape route for them, it’s a pretence for them, okay, it’s a second about changer for them, okay, they can, they can win the World, they can attract the world, they can prove to the world that you know, the disabilities that they have is not going to be permanent, okay. So I found some ray of light in cricket and they also knew that, that it is only through this cricket, you know, they will be able to succeed, okay, so this will cause this hope of, you know, changing the future, okay, that their life will change, that they will be able to regularly be like normal people get accolades get praises, get employments get money, you know, this is something that I was trying to feed into the dinosaurs to do look for today’s deals, or today’s success, you know, when we used to play a lot of prizes to play for the gallery, or just because their name is to come in the front page. So therefore, one day, I said, No, these are not your goals coming in front page, or coming in today’s interview, or in a meeting is to prove somebody that the ultimate thing is your future. Okay, I’ll hold this cricket is going to change your life, okay. So I gave him a ray of hope that this cricket would change your lifestyle. So that they liked very much they bought this idea, oh my god. Now, all these while I was, you know, I was I was being sympathise. I was an outcast, and it’s not part of the society. But now this cricket is going to give you something different. So, this hope that one day they will be like stars, they will be earning money, they will be independent, that they can also have houses they can also wear good dresses, they can also study, you know, is the whole future that they saw in front of them, which I visualise to them is through me. And I used to communicate and visualise them and make them sure is to make them feel that each one of them are stars, okay, this is what he will become. This is what you’re going to happen. So I gave them the future in their eyesight, okay, which they could not see. And once they found that they found there is a future bright future and this man is going to give us that one. It became very easy for me, but it was tough. You was tough because we were dreaming an empty dream. We were not sure what things would carry on, we will have a future toward some of the we’re not sure after this cricket, they will get food or not. Okay, whether they will be able to pay the rent or not, they will be able to, you know, travel or not. So a lot of those questions, were they a lot of preparations were there. This has to be a this. This has to be addressed every day. It’s not that once you motivate them and it’s finished and that every day will come back the same question, will they be they? Should I continue practising? Will I get something in the future? It was an everyday question. Okay. Which address slowly with meaning each of the webcams?

Gaurav Tripathi 30:39
Amazing, amazing here, I just wrote in the chat that what I take out from it is yes. Motivation is not a one day thing. It’s Yeah. It needs to be there every day. So shendu I think I’m already in my mind, I see similar questions from all the students which are coming to skill in Java to certain Oh, what you just mentioned that yes. students see to see x jump in the salary. But But what it is, did you say that? It’s, it’s, it’s not going to happen definitely with with every student, as I see, right? What what happens to the guys who are, you know, feel that? Oh, can I do it? How do you instil that hope in those students that that point of time? And how do how do you help them deal with with failure? I’m sure everybody got motivated that yes, I do that I get that. But then you always have setbacks. How does sculpture help? Or how do you guys help this?

Subhendu Panigrahi 31:51
Yeah, so I think there is no path to a shortcut to success, right? I think that has to be instilled in everybody’s mind, right? Hard work, there is no substitute to hard work, right? The first thing first. The second thing is that what I personally believe is in small wins, right? If you are doing something, which is a big, mammoth task, right? If you can divide it into small pieces, right, and say, if I do this, I will reward myself right. So small wins are always good. So let’s say you have realised that Okay, I will, in the next one year, I will become the best fresh graduate software engineer, then you will realise that I have to study like 10 hours every day, and then after practice, I have to build products have to be in hackathons. They will then lead just like what Patrick mentioned at the same story. It has to be every day you have to wake up and and realise that you have to do it every day. But then how do we as a platform enable is right? So that’s where the small wins come into picture, right? We we send daily challenges to our our participants, our users saying it, and then tell them that at least today, you have done this next day, you might become better, right? So I think as a product, taking the same philosophy of small wins and motivation every day, will only push them right. And you can only reach your goal on a daily basis. You can’t skip the those 365 days or two years, right. So daily motivation, small wins. Third is I have seen we get inspired by seeing real examples, right? That really helps, right? So we try to share stories of our winners or our people who have done this salary jumps might have these kind of sessions with them along with with our, our new users, new participants. So these three things, I think, a little bit of psychology. You can see gamification really helps people in the in that direction. And I agree, right? Not every one can achieve but if they do, they can always achieve what they were thinking that they can achieve, right? More than that. So that delta jump is still is a win for for us and win for them. Right? That is what we’re all striving for.

Gaurav Tripathi 34:16
So you mentioned about examples and can be what we’ve been talking about. But in terms of examples again, I see that if we look at people who have already been successful, do you to question to both of them, both of both of you. Where do you see mentorship in this equation wherein people who are successful now Can everybody who is successful, can be a mentor, or what does it take to be a mentor

Patrick Rajkumar 35:06
So I never believed that, you know, I never believed the results. You start working towards results, you will collapse. I’ve always believed in the process. Okay, I always tell them victory is not important for us. The participation is very, very important for us, okay? Because the lessons, life lessons are in the process. So only if successful people, you know, only those who achieved greatness, okay? Again, success depends on this money you’re talking about, or the knowledge you’re talking about? What are we talking about? So I never, I always tell people don’t worry about finals. Don’t worry about the success. Okay? Whether we win or not, that is not important. Your whole life lessons are in the process. Okay. So I always believe that, you know, Ratatouille, very great successes and failures are the greatest learners, I tell them success will make you arrogant. It is the failures that will teach you life lessons. So for me, I’ve never gone behind being success. I when I started coaching, I never thought of having five gold cups under my bag. That was not if I had started with that I would have collapsed, I would tell to every beginner everybody wants to learn in life want to be successful in life, learn to accept failures, you know, it is in every World Cup, etc. We have lost to Pakistan. And that will be the wake up call for us. It’s like come on, okay, because we will be defeating everybody and commits and started to have a big loss to Pakistan. And everybody comes down. They say, Oh, this is a wake up call. Because all these victories never taught us how to win. It is only the failure that teaches us how to win. So therefore no, I personally believe and I that’s what I do as a coach. Never believe we start with the results in your mind, you will never reach there. Every single step is a learning lessons. So if you want to be successful, don’t only go for success been crass, or don’t think you will learn life lessons only from the great people in life. No, you will learn things from ordinary people. You know, my blind players have taught me so many lessons in life. They were not successful. So I don’t combine this idea of you know, all you need, you need to be only successful. Okay, you can take lessons from success. Typically, today I’m talking because I’m successful coach, that is different. But the lessons that I’ve learned are not because of the success is because of the failures that I’ve had. That has brought me into this. I’m sure even spoony will agree with that. Okay, is that not that he has been always successful or all IT company because everybody is successful? All the time. Okay. failures, I tell you are a beautiful life lessons. And I always believe in the process, not in the end.

Subhendu Panigrahi 37:48
Yeah, I totally agree with Patrick. I think a lot of people would have seen the saying by Jeff Bezos, who happens to be a founder of Amazon. He says that it’s still day one, right? I mean, you can imagine Amazon That said, it’s a behemoth, right. And that’s a large, giant company, we’re still below says that it’s still day one, right? Because he knows that success will only make me the moment I realised that I am successful, somebody will come and just eat me away. And we have seen enough companies getting closed, right? I mean, there are I think the if, if the crowd is quite younger, they would not remember MySpace or blockbuster or a lot of brands that existed, right? And nobody knows about them. And they were big giants back then AltaVista search engine, nobody knows about me. So I think that is a success versus failure. Right? So I think failure is quite important. If you have failed you, you learn a lot. And you keep striving towards the success, right? And I totally agree with you learning can happen from anybody, right? You can learn from, from ordinary people from people who have done really well in life, if you fail right now depends on the mentee, how they’re taking it, right? The mentor will do the job, right. But the onus is also obviously on the mentee, and how they’re assimilating that information and how they’re using in their in their real life scenarios. Right. But what typically, I see is one thing that I’ve learned, I’ve been on the both side on both sides as a founder and I have been mentee, right my mentors are my investors. There are few investors who have been successful founders, like funny from Redbirds Ragu from taxi for sure. These are my investors. So, they are my mentors, like I learn a lot from them. Right. And I have been a mentor to obviously my team members, some of my ex employees who have started companies. And one one thing I’ve learned as a mentor is that mentor cannot be prescriptive, prescriptive, right. I can only tell them That this is this is one of the ways to do it. This is not the only way to do it right? from their situation where they are today, they have to pick up things, right. And that’s where what I believe was when I had to mentor somebody, I never become prescriptive, I say, I don’t say you have to do this, or that, because then you become a doctor. You’re not a mentor anymore. As a mentor, you can only show one path, right? saying, Hey, this is how things I’ve seen from my experience. But you have to pick and choose what you are dealing with today. Right? So that’s something that if people are, like I said, it, we all are mentors, we all are mentees. That’s what I believe.

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